500 hour parts

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GimpyPilot
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by GimpyPilot »

N533XL wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:47 pm Glad to see owners taking action to source parts and get/keep their aircraft flying.
5 of us are working with Richard Squires at Langaire Aircraft Parts in Warren, Oregon.
Originally quoted a price of $52 per pin. One overseas party is not able to import owner produced parts made in the US so that will adjust the price up a bit. Also expecting a quote from Langaire very soon (requires a tool) and we should be good to go.

Chuck Bloom
N533XL
Hi Chuck,

How does raising the price address the issues with import of owner produced parts? As far as I know, they only way to legally yellow tag a part is to acquire them from a manufacturer with PMA, (Parts Manufacturing Authority). Does Langaire have PMA for these two parts? Be careful. If someone is going to charge for a tagged part, make darned sure they actually have authority to do so. PMA is not easy to get, and doesn't make a lot of sense for type specific parts when the fleet is perhaps 100 airframes and not likely to grow. Anyone can fill out a parts tag, but unless they've got authority to do so, for each and every certified part they tag, you'll be paying for a worthless piece of paper and an illegal part.

Be very, very careful. Unless Langaire actually does have PMA for each of these specific parts, the only way this can be done legally under FAA regulations is for each owner to order from a machinist individually, and each owner must provide specifications, even if the manufacturer already has them. If a manufacturer makes several sets of these and keeps them in stock in anticipation of future orders, laws are being broken unless that manufacturer has PMA for the part.

I assume the $52 "quote" addresses the nose lock pin. Have you got a quote for the tailplane lugs? You'll need one nose lock pin and two tailplane lugs per airframe at 500 hours. Also, be sure that your machinist is using lot traceable materials with the proper inspections. At $52 bucks a pop, he's probably using remainder 4130, which may not be a great idea either, and won't be legal for tagged parts.

Incidentally, I might be a little wary of a shop that is "waiting for a tool" for these parts. They are extremely simple parts and can be made by anyone with a multi-axis CNC mill or even a standard metals lathe. There is no special tooling required for either of these parts.

It is wonderful if you guys have found someone who is really willing to go to the time and expense of obtaining PMA for XL-2 parts. Just make sure the result is what you think it is, and that everything is being done in a way that satisfies regulations.

Good luck. Be careful out there.
-Michael
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by N533XL »

Michael,
Each of us has provided the drawings individually and I have discussed the process for owner sourced parts with the FSDO in Richmond, VA. FSDO even provided references and legal documents on the process for owners going out and sourcing their own parts.
I provided a spreadsheet to Langaire of what each owner was looking to source individually to give them an idea of the total requirements and to assist them in determining costs.

- From Langaire's latest email this week regarding the lugs:
I have been trying to work with a company for a tool to help the lugs, They have not been able to reply so I am planning a different route now. Will update on cost as soon as I finish.

Even though its taken month's, Jason has indicated the owner has said he is making funds available to support re-starting parts manufacturing at their approved source, but that the owner has not identified how much and when the funds will be available in an account Jason can access. He projected at least 90 days before Discovery can provide parts once the funds are accessible.
GimpyPilot
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by GimpyPilot »

Hi Chuck,

That all sounds good. I'm actually "the guy" who did all the research with respect to owner supplied parts for the 500 hour bits months ago, having consulted with my local FSDO and the Airworthiness Certification Division of the FAA, and shared my findings here on a few occasions. You are mostly correct. My comments were made with respect to the Korean owners and the parts they need. They'll need tagged parts that were made under PMA. In point of fact, they would need tagged parts even if their aircraft were registered and operated in the U.S. because they are operating a flight school and offering time in their XL-2s for compensation. Under such circumstances, owner supplied parts cannot be used here, either.

Best,
-Michael
tafisama
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by tafisama »

GimpyPilot wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:48 pm Hi Chuck,

That all sounds good. I'm actually "the guy" who did all the research with respect to owner supplied parts for the 500 hour bits months ago, having consulted with my local FSDO and the Airworthiness Certification Division of the FAA, and shared my findings here on a few occasions. You are mostly correct. My comments were made with respect to the Korean owners and the parts they need. They'll need tagged parts that were made under PMA. In point of fact, they would need tagged parts even if their aircraft were registered and operated in the U.S. because they are operating a flight school and offering time in their XL-2s for compensation. Under such circumstances, owner supplied parts cannot be used here, either.

Best,
-Michael
Many thanks Michael for the work you keep doing behind the scenes for us.It would have been good if Jason had forwarded what they currently have for sale to owners even if it's not related to 500hrly.It would boost moral a bit.
GimpyPilot
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by GimpyPilot »

No worries, guys. Once again, I must point out that I am merely a private pilot with an engineering background. I am not an A&P/IA, a representative of the FAA, or lawyer, so take my words with a grain of salt.

After scratching my head a bit, I will say that at $52 each, it would be hard to sell the nose lock pin and make any money at all, given setup and tooling time, unless 4130 Chromoly steel is not being used, perhaps the machine shop is using starting with scrap material, or perhaps the shop intends to cut hundreds of these, in the hopes of many, many orders. None of those is legal under the regulations. Please, please, please, get at least a detailed BOM with your parts, so that in the event of a pin failure you might have some sort recourse.

I'll be interested in seeing what the vendor quotes for the tailplane lugs.

For reference, I paid $250 for two nose lock pins and one set of tailplane lugs directly from Liberty Aerospace in about 2014. Liberty's pricing would have had the advantage of mass-production, and sunken cost machine and setup time.

I very much hope you guys get what you need!
-Michael
N533XL
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by N533XL »

Received NLG Pins and Lug Attachments produced by Langaire Aircraft Parts last week with all required paperwork. Joe successfully installed on N533XL this past weekend.
Attachments
NLG Pin and Lug Attachments.jpg
GimpyPilot
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by GimpyPilot »

Sweet!
N533XL
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by N533XL »

Received an email today from Jason indicating owner wiring funds to Jason this week to support manufacturing of parts.

Chuck Bloom
N533XL
N549XL
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by N549XL »

I bought my Liberty a couple months ago. I had some concerns initially, but for me the Liberty was the only way to go. I figured I would make it work one way or another. So far I love this plane. I had the parts in question fabricated using the drawings on this site.
Attachments
XL2 Parts.jpg
Damon
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Re: 500 hour parts

Post by Damon »

Just to add on...I got my parts a few weeks ago and just had them installed by my A&P. He said the parts were perfect and the paperwork was all in order. Thanks to Chuck for doing the leg work and finding us a shop that can keep us flying. My A&P did note that it's weird that we have to replace these parts at 500hrs as the parts he pulled out showed no signs of wear.
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